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current state of intrin // and questions to the staff
#1
just want to preface this by saying that I am by no means an endgame player and would hardly consider myself anything above an average player.

i first started intrinsic around January, when the #1 player was a level 2xx kaiser and the original gms crossroads were the "hub" for all of the quests. 
i never got past third job, and stopped playing less than a week in.

fast forward to a few weeks ago, was told by a few friends that intrin was updating to 17x and that the server was in a much better state then last i saw it.

they were right! there were more quests, more content, and most importantly, many many more active players.
the entire reason i started intrin once again was because of other players. this still applies today.
likewise, the reverse is true. if no-one i know is online, what is the purpose of logging in?

just this month, intrin recieved its update to 17x, a much needed update that also brought both old and new players to intrin.
the staff also handled this well: there were promises of events and extra exp events all throughout December.

however, many mistakes following the update caused everything to crumble. active player count dropped from around 50 to less than 30...
here's a list, ordered chronologically as best i can remember:

   - massive nerfs, bugs, and general confusion following the 17x update. nearly half of all classes experience unintentional nerfs\unintentional revamps, causing even true veterans to quit in frustration

   -stats/damage are cut in half, a change that pissed off everyone and helped practically no-one

   -the promise of bug fixes/events quickly fell through the roof, causing even more confusion and unrest clarification: general dissatisfaction with the handling of bug fixes and events that were underwhelming to many players

   -lack of communication regarding the two above problems slowly ate away at the already quickly declining player base

   -lastly, the only two active in game moderators try their best to entertain the remaining players, but can only do so much

so, what happened? how did intrinsic's playercount DROP rather than rise after such an amazing version update...?
as a new player, i simply can't understand the anger and frustration of the players who have slaved hours on end, only for their job/class to get smited down despite the promises to rebalance damage and skill changed.

i pose some questions to the staff: 
what now?
what is your plan moving forward?
and how will you make up your mistakes to the players, especially your most devout, loyal members?




post-edit notes:
i will try my best to outline my primary points from the original post and lay things out as cleanly as possible:
i would like to move away from the negativity i displayed in the main portion of this thread, so here's a list of things i believe the staff has handled very well:

speed and neutrality when communication with players
amiable and friendly responses from staff
professional interns and game masters
dedication of developers to continue forward
open minded staff

few avenues of communication, e.g "just report on forums"
confusion among veterans and beginners on the direction of the server
anger and unrest due to unintentional changes
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#2
I too want to preface this by saying thank you for being a long time veteran of the game.

However, there are a few fallacies I see in your post that I'd like to go over and clarify for you and other players who may feel similarly.

You mention that the promise of bug fixes was not followed through with, but if you look at the v176 Bug Report thread there is a long list of around 200 bugs that were reported following the v176 release. During the first week the list was updated and maintained by both myself and Neptune. As it stands as of 12/10 (last update of the post) about 70%~ of the bugs reported have been fixed & more. This is proven by the numerous update logs that Neptune so kindly puts together for us every update.

Currently, the main thread is not being updated, but bugs are still being found and fixed (again, look at recent update logs). So to say bug fixes either did not happen or fell short either makes me think you are simply mistaken in your wording, or aren't paying attention.

Secondly, you mention the promise of events as well. We hosted a 1.5x EXP/2x DROP/1.5 DP and during the first few days a 2x VP event that had lasted until the 18th of December. Furthermore, we are hosting 2x EXP and DROP events for the upcoming New Year. What irks me though is that you talk about in game staff entertaining players.

We have several staff members each with their own specified jobs. Neptune is the owner and developer, I am an admin and misc behind the scenes stuff, Shiina is a developer, NoLimit, Shin and Bell are our in game GM, and Tave is on leave. Personally, last weekend we did promise events, and we did follow through on our promise as far as I'm concerned. Shin is currently host a large event, NoLimit had hosted several JQs, and Bells and I did miscellaneous events (HnS, Monsters, etc). Due to our limited number of in game staff, events aren't always a possibility everyday, nor should they be expected currently. If we had more knowledgeable staff applicants, I'd say sure we can make events daily, but as it is, we're frankly understaffed in that department. We try our best, but you must realize, events are a bonus right now, not a feature.

Lack of communication? have you ever been on our Discord, or forums? There are plenty of announcements and details regarding events, updates, etc. If you haven't kept track of either the forums or joined the Discord I highly suggest you do. If you are on both, please explain what you mean by a lack of communication.

I will admit, I think the damage reduction was improperly implemented and frankly not such a great idea at the moment. However, the reasoning for doing it is logical and frankly it's the easiest and most 'unnoticeable' (in the long run) way we could do it. By halving damage and reducing monsters HP we allow for progression to truly scale to the 400 levels that we have. This prevents users to hit the cap (or insane amounts of damage (op)) easily. Was it a good idea? Debatable, but it's done now.

We have always struggled with getting and retaining new players. Why you might ask? We are an extremely niche server with a learning curve that most Maplestory PS players are not used to. We attempt to help with this by creating detailed guides, tutorials and many many places to ask questions from helpful people. We have tried and tried again, but player counts are stagnant. If we switched to a normal low rate v176, yea we could get a lot more players, but that's not the kind of server we want.

I'm interested to read your reply and hopefully we can clear some of these points up for each other.
Admin & Web Developer of IntrinsicMS
PM me if you have any admin/website related questions.
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#3
The reason to why RMZ dominated the game was because he had 0 bugs. Intrinsic although it tries, is still super buggy. Even the small bugs that nep ignores because he thinks they are not worth his time. Rmz fixed these and this is what gave such an amazing bugless source. In my opinion if Intrinsic wants to improve it needs to have that RMZ bug mentality whilst still making content. I know this may be hard as not everyone is a wizard like the great man RMZ. But having even a few small bugs can really deter players from the server.

On the damage reduction thing. I think the 0.5x dmg and 0.5x hp would be been enough for now. Doing potentials just seems a bit abstract and hard to quantify the damage lost. Since nobody is really hitting cap (except in super unrealistic situations like monsters being weak to ice so you do 2x damage and using impractical skills like aran's tempest)

Just my 2 cents.
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#4
(12-26-2016, 12:59 AM)ideals Wrote: The reason to why RMZ dominated the game was because he had 0 bugs. Intrinsic although it tries, is still super buggy. Even the small bugs that nep ignores because he thinks they are not worth his time. Rmz fixed these and this is what gave such an amazing bugless source. In my opinion if Intrinsic wants to improve it needs to have that RMZ bug mentality whilst still making content. I know this may be hard as not everyone is a wizard like the great man RMZ. But having even a few small bugs can really deter players from the server.

Just my 2 cents.

I like you're thinking, and you're right, but you must know that Neptune is 99% of the time working alone. He does both content AND bugs, this make his time very valuable thus he needs to pick and choose what to work on.

Also, Neptune has admitted this himself many times, he's no where near as good as RMZ, not even close. However, it's still admirable how far he's come as a solo developer.

Again, I agree that bugs are a priority, but we need to prioritize some over others.
Admin & Web Developer of IntrinsicMS
PM me if you have any admin/website related questions.
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#5
(12-26-2016, 12:59 AM)ideals Wrote: The reason to why RMZ dominated the game was because he had 0 bugs. Intrinsic although it tries, is still super buggy. Even the small bugs that nep ignores because he thinks they are not worth his time. Rmz fixed these and this is what gave such an amazing bugless source. In my opinion if Intrinsic wants to improve it needs to have that RMZ bug mentality whilst still making content. I know this may be hard as not everyone is a wizard like the great man RMZ. But having even a few small bugs can really deter players from the server.

Just my 2 cents.

This might be partly true, but I think what deters most people from this server is that it's focused on questing and some of them are really tedious.
OT: I do agree w/ roroo about the damage nerf and potential nerf. I don't think it was needed since no one has even hit cap yet or even close. The reason RMZ did the nerf was because people were hitting cap so easily and there was a LOT of them. A lot of bugs were fixed, and the admins did hold up to their promises of hosting events. Class balancing will come eventually; there's a reason why there's a suggestion section.
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#6
(12-26-2016, 01:05 AM)Spaceman Wrote:
(12-26-2016, 12:59 AM)ideals Wrote: The reason to why RMZ dominated the game was because he had 0 bugs. Intrinsic although it tries, is still super buggy. Even the small bugs that nep ignores because he thinks they are not worth his time. Rmz fixed these and this is what gave such an amazing bugless source. In my opinion if Intrinsic wants to improve it needs to have that RMZ bug mentality whilst still making content. I know this may be hard as not everyone is a wizard like the great man RMZ. But having even a few small bugs can really deter players from the server.

Just my 2 cents.

I like you're thinking, and you're right, but you must know that Neptune is 99% of the time working alone. He does both content AND bugs, this make his time very valuable thus he needs to pick and choose what to work on.

Also, Neptune has admitted this himself many times, he's no where near as good as RMZ, not even close. However, it's still admirable how far he's come as a solo developer.

Again, I agree that bugs are a priority, but we need to prioritize some over others.

Yes, Nep has done an amazing job to make this server. But maybe its time to look for another coder? who can focus on bugs leaving nep with content.

(12-26-2016, 01:07 AM)Castella Wrote:
(12-26-2016, 12:59 AM)ideals Wrote: The reason to why RMZ dominated the game was because he had 0 bugs. Intrinsic although it tries, is still super buggy. Even the small bugs that nep ignores because he thinks they are not worth his time. Rmz fixed these and this is what gave such an amazing bugless source. In my opinion if Intrinsic wants to improve it needs to have that RMZ bug mentality whilst still making content. I know this may be hard as not everyone is a wizard like the great man RMZ. But having even a few small bugs can really deter players from the server.

Just my 2 cents.

This might be partly true, but I think what deters most people from this server is that it's focused on questing and some of them are really tedious.
OT: I do agree w/ roroo about the damage nerf and potential nerf. I don't think it was needed since no one has even hit cap yet or even close. The reason RMZ did the nerf was because people were hitting cap so easily and there was a LOT of them. A lot of bugs were fixed, and the admins did hold up to their promises of hosting events. Class balancing will come eventually; there's a reason why there's a suggestion section.

If people dont like questing then they shouldnt be playing a questing based server. That is something that the staff cant really fix. Just adding on the damage thing RMZ made ellinia too easy to cap with the op enhancements and skill changes. To combat this he nerfed damage instead of reverting skill changes and starforce.
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#7
(12-26-2016, 01:09 AM)ideals Wrote:
(12-26-2016, 01:05 AM)Spaceman Wrote:
(12-26-2016, 12:59 AM)ideals Wrote: The reason to why RMZ dominated the game was because he had 0 bugs. Intrinsic although it tries, is still super buggy. Even the small bugs that nep ignores because he thinks they are not worth his time. Rmz fixed these and this is what gave such an amazing bugless source. In my opinion if Intrinsic wants to improve it needs to have that RMZ bug mentality whilst still making content. I know this may be hard as not everyone is a wizard like the great man RMZ. But having even a few small bugs can really deter players from the server.

Just my 2 cents.

I like you're thinking, and you're right, but you must know that Neptune is 99% of the time working alone. He does both content AND bugs, this make his time very valuable thus he needs to pick and choose what to work on.

Also, Neptune has admitted this himself many times, he's no where near as good as RMZ, not even close. However, it's still admirable how far he's come as a solo developer.

Again, I agree that bugs are a priority, but we need to prioritize some over others.

Yes, Nep has done an amazing job to make this server. But maybe its time to look for another coder? who can focus on bugs leaving nep with content.

We had talked about that previously, however, finding a dedicated developer who is also trustworthy isn't that easy. Could we hire someone? Maybe, but there's also issues with that too.

Neptune also talks about trust a lot as well. We are one of a very few number of mostly working v176 sources, if we let someone in they could just as easily screw us over, etc. Also fun fact,I still don't yet have direct access to the database despite being on the team for over a year. He takes security and trust very seriously.

Again, nothing I say is set in stone, and anything can change.
Admin & Web Developer of IntrinsicMS
PM me if you have any admin/website related questions.
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#8
I am GM Bell and for the past week, I have been hosting miscellaneous events (Hide and seek, True or False, Mafia, RR, Musical Chairs, Jump Quest and etc) at least ONCE A DAY. If you're on and not paying attention to the notices that I make where I say that "The event will begin in 5 minutes, please proceed to fm cc1 to get warp to the event map,", then that is your own fault. If you're not on, then this is an timing issue since you and I or other players who may have the same concerns as u pertaining to events may live in different time zones from each other. I usually hosts my event at 10:00 PM EST every single day so you have been notified now if you wish to participate in some events and if you're able to, then please log on at 10:00 PM EST for an event.

Also please keep in mind that there are actually other factors aside from what you pointed out that could have made a bigger impact on why the player count went down and not up. For example, have you considered that around the same time Intrinsic has updated to v176, Global MapleStory has updated to v178 and released V job? This itself may be the biggest reason why the player count went down because almost nobody can resist the temptation to want to try out never before played/seen V Job unless you played on KMS and spoiled it for urself. Let's say, this update was never released and only Intrinsic updated, then perhaps our player count may have increased.

-There were also finals, too. I don't know about you, but of our players may be in college and the week Intrinsic was updated was FINALS WEEK and that's pretty important as nobody should have time to play games.
-Players in highschool were preparing for the SATs

Those are only a few possibilities of why our player count went down so don't solely blame and point out the flaws of this server.
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#9
hi spaceman,

first off, thanks for reading my long post, and i apologize if it became a rant halfway through.
i think i came off a little too blunt, and hope i did not cause an offense to the staff.

regarding the bug changes, i believe i should clarify. the devs have done a wonderful job in fixing the massive influx of bugs due to the version upgrade. however, i still feel as if many key flaws are still in the game. 

for example, my class is missing a 40% damage boost aswell as its DoT. but once again, the devs have fixed the other 90% of bugs for my class. i redact my statement above and think i worded it poorly and exaggerated. but regardless , there are still many critical issues that still need addressing.

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about the events, i perhaps i was expecting too much. while shin undoubtedly set up a large event on the forums, i believe me and many players were simply expecting more than a screenshot-and-post style of game. the rewards were also incredibly underwhelming, from my knowledge, winners are to receive a chair gach ticket. i may be wrong regarding the prizes, i apologize ahead of time if i am mistaken.

my wording about the events was also rather poor. allow me to clarify:
personally, I can hardly consider a boost in drop rates/exp/meso an "event". while it was very nice to progress at a faster speed, not only did the boost end after a few  weeks, but so did the 2x dp. 

I had originally thought the purpose of the boosted rates and vp was to encourage new players to play & vote. But they were terminated before new players even had the chance to appreciate them. Why not keep the vp and boosted rates throughout december, or atleast until playercount and forum activity begin to increase?

to shorten things, i think it felt like a shot in the foot. while i could clearly identify the events aswell as the staff's effort and hard work, the "events" felt very dry and flavorless.


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on the topic of communication, the best avenue players have to relay information to the staff is either through a bug report or a discord message. 

from the dev's perspective, their only way to send information is the exact same, a change log on the forums or an announcement on discord.

while i understand that the devs must be extremely busy, are there not ways that would be more effecient than just posting or the discord shoutbox? for example, a group of players willing to give up their player status and work as bug testers on an isolated vps just for testing purposes? 

perhaps im just jaded, but right after the release of 17x, my class was nearly unplayable due to the numerous bugs. the only response i could get was "we'll get to it eventually". 


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i should also try to emphasize this more: since the release of 17x, the quality of the server has increased dramatically. however, during the period of time when the server was healing, a massive chunk of the playerbase had simply left. i would like to focus less on the past, and more on the present and the future. how will you guys pull your old players back? and is there structure in place to avoid such a loss in players again?
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#10
(12-26-2016, 01:14 AM)Spaceman Wrote:
(12-26-2016, 01:09 AM)ideals Wrote:
(12-26-2016, 01:05 AM)Spaceman Wrote:
(12-26-2016, 12:59 AM)ideals Wrote: The reason to why RMZ dominated the game was because he had 0 bugs. Intrinsic although it tries, is still super buggy. Even the small bugs that nep ignores because he thinks they are not worth his time. Rmz fixed these and this is what gave such an amazing bugless source. In my opinion if Intrinsic wants to improve it needs to have that RMZ bug mentality whilst still making content. I know this may be hard as not everyone is a wizard like the great man RMZ. But having even a few small bugs can really deter players from the server.

Just my 2 cents.

I like you're thinking, and you're right, but you must know that Neptune is 99% of the time working alone. He does both content AND bugs, this make his time very valuable thus he needs to pick and choose what to work on.

Also, Neptune has admitted this himself many times, he's no where near as good as RMZ, not even close. However, it's still admirable how far he's come as a solo developer.

Again, I agree that bugs are a priority, but we need to prioritize some over others.

Yes, Nep has done an amazing job to make this server. But maybe its time to look for another coder? who can focus on bugs leaving nep with content.

We had talked about that previously, however, finding a dedicated developer who is also trustworthy isn't that easy. Could we hire someone? Maybe, but there's also issues with that too.

Neptune also talks about trust a lot as well. We are one of a very few number of mostly working v176 sources, if we let someone in they could just as easily screw us over, etc. Also fun fact,I still don't yet have direct access to the database despite being on the team for over a year. He takes security and trust very seriously.

Again, nothing I say is set in stone, and anything can change.

Understandable
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